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Tantra4GayMen Podcast – Episode 04 – I can’t and don’t make any sound in sex. Is this wrong?

Transcript

 

Hello and welcome to the Tantra for Gay Men podcast hosted by Jason and Ingo Tantra. Here we’re exploring spirituality and personal growth through the practice of Tantra, the body, energy and sex.  Hello there, I’m Jason Tantra and welcome to episode four of our Tantra for Gay Men podcast hosted by beautiful me, Jason Tantra, and my beautiful husband, Ingo Tantra.

 

In this podcast, we are talking about the problem or issue around not being able to make sound in sex. So hello, here we are at episode four. Hello, beautiful Ingo. Hello, beautiful Jason. Welcome to our episode. Thank you, how are you doing?  Good welcome to our episode and what people don’t know is we’re looking to our left or your right We are in still beautiful sunny Copenhagen in Thailand  And we’re just looking at a beautiful sea and palm trees and feel very blessed and lucky But we are working very hard whilst we’re here as well, aren’t we?

 

Well, it, well, it has just been a, it actually has just been a complete, uh, a little bit of a, um, stress to set up this, um, recording thing.  Because we are on a tropical island, we are not in a, let’s say, professional Studio or somewhere where the lighting would be perfect and the sound would be perfect And the sun wouldn’t be shining from the wrong side and things like that But instead well, even if the light is a little bit glary, um in the background It’s the sea and around us palm trees and this is our you say this is our winter.

 

Um, this is our winter home Yes, yes, very very blessed Tantra Island as they call it  Really works really well for us  Let me tell them about today’s topic so um today’s topic one of the things we’re dealing with in this podcast is um, common issues that we see. Either we are observing them or people are raising them as um, as issues that they’re working with.

 

And the one that we see quite often that we’re dealing with today is the, and I don’t want to use the word issue, we’re going to talk about that in a moment,  But the inability, or the struggle, to be able to make sound in sex. So, maybe you’re identifying with that, or maybe you’ve had experiences with people that aren’t able to make any sound in sex.

 

And also in tantric practice. Yes, and, um Why is that important?  Probably the readers, you know, they the listeners would ask why is this important? Why is it important to make sound in sex? Well for me, it’s important both in sex but also in Tantra  for me in sex if you If you make sound, if you engage, if you express yourself, then you’re going to have much better pleasure.

 

So I think, like, one of the top reasons for wanting to learn or wanting to help yourself make sounds in sex is because sex is going to be far more brilliant, far more better, far more pleasurable. And in Tantra, in the practice of Tantra, you’re going to want to learn how to make sound. This really starts to tiptoe into, for me, why people have these issues around making sound, and that was going to be, you know, my major offering.

 

But the reason why you’d want to do that in Tantric practice is because you’re going to feel more ecstasy, more pleasure, more orgasmic sensation. But I think as a population of men who love men, as gay men, that actually there’s some reasons why this may be very prevalent and very much an issue, um, in our community.

 

Okay.  More sound, e quilts. More ecstasy. This is, this is something that’s indeed, uh, completely fundamental to Tantra, and some people might be able to relate to this, um, idea, uh, that actually more sound might bring more pleasure in sex, but it’s much more than that, it brings more ecstasy in Tantra, and actually, Later in this podcast, we are going to talk about how there’s a whole different, almost like a spiritual dimension, meditative dimension also, to this sound thing.

 

So there, there, there are lots of different dimensions. So what you’re saying basically is  overcoming your aversion to Uh making sound It’s actually a big thing. It’s not just a little gimmick, right? Yes, and also we’ve been in workshops where people have said oh, I don’t make sound  And they’ve kind of built themselves a position That you can’t necessarily back out of  And so some people have said, Oh, well, I just don’t make sound.

 

It just doesn’t happen. It’s not going to happen. And they’ve written it off.  But for me, one of the reasons to get over this is because it is on a pathway of freedom. Tantra for me. Is a pathway of freedom and part of that freedom is the ability to express what is truly happening for you moment to moment.

 

So if you feel pleasure that you’re able to unashamedly bring it a wild sound of expressing how that feels in your body. And that is a pathway to freedom. Like if I’d been really blunt for a moment.  Imagine, dear lis Is it, you called them dear listeners? Dear listeners, dear listeners. Imagine that you have, you’re gonna be fucked by this amazing, big throbbing cock, okay?

 

For me,  Half of the enjoyment of that experience, and I’m just plucking that one out of a tree of many experiences, pleasurable experiences you could have, but half of the pleasure of that is how you meet the sensation, but not just meet it, how you express it. As Diana Ross would have said to Ingo, it’s like a chain reaction. 

 

Do you know the song? We’re in the middle of a chain reaction.  So for me, the chain reaction is, huge massive cock, okay, this is talk about sex, never in tantra, huge massive cock going into your arse and you are really meeting all of that pleasure, you are welcoming that into your body, the, the chain reaction is then you feel the sensation and to almost complete that gestalt, you’re then expressing the pleasure of that. 

 

And really, really fully letting out a grunt, a groan, a whimper, a cry for God. Yeah, actually, you know, for me, what it feels like actually when I’ve got, you know, one of those sensations. And it feels like as if I was almost like pulling that sensation out.  of  the location where it’s happening, cock ass whatever, and pulling it out and making it bigger and pushing it into my whole body like  like, you know,  it’s something to try out very, very easily.

 

You immediately get this effect.  Ah, off off off amplification off off the the sensation. Yes. And you could argue from a certain perspective. Is that part of our role as human beings is to express? And, you know, we talk about awareness. We talk about consciousness. We talk about being in the moment of now like the only moment of anything is now.

 

And for me, why  being able to express sound Is an expression of that moment of now it’s sort of like a a response. It’s an acknowledgement It’s a a meeting of that sensation  Which leads us into the more meditative?  uh objectives in this presence completely being with what with what is completely savoring what the world offers you in that moment in terms of Sensation and and erotic pleasure,  but you wanted to say a few other things about this before we go into that Yes, that’s kind of like the second the second half  But the bit because it’s like well, okay, well, why do we carry this as a community and I think that there’s two Major events that have happened in our life as men who love men as gay men that have kind of amplified this issue. You know, we live in a world, and you know, this is my pers my own personal perceptions, I think we live in a world where we are so worried about what other people think about us, how other people perceive us, how we look, do we look the right way, are we wearing the right clothes, even down to sex.

 

Am I performing sex in the right way that’s not going to be criticized or judged and we can end up living misery. It can be real misery and real suffering when you live a life based on what you think other people should want you to be. And I think one of the fundamental, um, fundamental parts of the tantra, the teachings of tantra  is that actually. 

 

What’s fundamentally important is you claiming back your freedom and fuck everybody else. Fuck everybody else’s opinion. It’s nothing. It doesn’t matter, but that you are able to be your true, authentic self, moment to moment, in your expression of you. And that, for me, is hugely spiritual and part of the, of the journey.

 

So I think you are,  you’re referring to an experience that probably almost everyone, you know, including me, especially before I started tantra, you know, you, you stuff all the time in, in, in, in, in sex. And I wasn’t even aware of it. It’s like  being in sex. I was not fully being in sex because. Yes, all the time I was with the torches of my mind.

 

Basically, IE  uh, you know, all these thoughts, um, all the time. Oh, God, is,  is what I’m doing really what he wants? Uh, is he enjoying this? Uh,  do I look? Yeah. Do I look okay? Am I at my best? Is it, you know, is, is.  All of these questions, all of these, you know, self deprecating, uh, thoughts, they’re always there, aren’t they?

 

They are in our conditioning, for most people at least. And as you talk about that, what I want to just even talk about, which I wasn’t aware I was going to, is porn. Let’s talk about porn for a moment. So, one of the side gigs that I have is I am one of the coaches and content creators. I write scripts for Himi Eros TV, um, headed up by Davey Wavey.

 

And I think I’ve done about five, six projects with them over the years. Yeah. At least, which would amount to at least 50 clips or something like that which you have 20 minute or so videos  and I think one of the biggest things I’ve learned like sometimes we watch porn and we think that is how sex should be  and Because it’s our only frame of reference of how sex should be, you know, we’re never I don’t know about you, my sex education, I went to a Catholic school. 

 

I always laugh, I can’t believe I’m going to tell you this, but I always laugh about my sex education. I was in year one at, um,  at what you would call secondary school, I guess that’s high school in America. And, um, This was back in the days, you tell you how old I am, they dissected a rat on a board and they had the poor thing with its body parts open and all of its organs showing and they pointed at different parts and then they pointed to the, this was a boy rat, um, his, his cock and, My sex education was that goes into the the girl rats  Hole as it were or I think they had some proper Latin name for it  And that’s how babies are made.

 

Oh god, that’s horrible. But that’s you know, that’s at least  Uh, yes, same here. I would say, uh, schooling  roughly, roughly, not quite as bad, but roughly similar. But I would say schooling, you know, school in the 80s, in the 90s, early 90s, something like this.  We didn’t really, We didn’t really get,  um, we weren’t really like, we didn’t really get an explanation about all the potential of sex.

 

We got, um, a lowdown on, you know, on the biological function.  And that was basically it. So, and the rest, you’re right, we got from porn. We got from porn because there was nothing else. And what porn does really, really well, I think porn is an amazing tool. Um, it does an amazing tool of arousing. The, the, the job of porn is to arouse you.

 

It isn’t to show you what good sex looks like. And okay, there’s some crossover, but I know that all of the amazing performers that I’ve worked with over the years.  They’re doing a performance. Do I look good? Am I making the right sounds? Am I making it appealing for the viewer? And you’d think that exactly the right perspective, exactly the right muscle shown in, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, almost to a point of paralysis.

 

Of performance, that there’s such, there’s such anxiety around, do I look good on camera? Am I performing in the right way? These are, I am blessed to have worked with some amazing performers who are incredibly professional and doing a really good job of making really good porn that really arouses. But it’s professional.

 

But it’s professional. And that for me, it does not show you what good sex looks like. Yeah. For many men that love men, they go into sexual encounters. With porn being their only frame of reference and for me to dissected rats  was my sex education and then, you know, being brought up Catholic. I mean, you know, there’s a whole other podcast about how religion has fucked up people over the decades.

 

But for me, then  it basically, when you’re saying it doesn’t show you good sex, I would say.  It shows you perfectly  arousing sex that is beautiful to look at. What it does not show you is what sex is good for you personally. What sex will bring you personally, push you personally into ecstasy and into Nobody’s showing you techniques.

 

Nobody’s showing you how your body works. Nobody shows you how anal, I think anal sex is still a mystery to a lot of people around how to master that and how to make, how that, that is in any way even pleasurable. And I think also we live in a world where I think part of the tantric journey or part of the  The mistake that we make is we put other people’s perceptions of us, other people’s judgments of us above, above ourselves.

 

And that is a pathway to misery.  To, uh, to the topic, basically, yeah, I know that for myself, you know, watching porn, oh, and, and then going into real life sex, which is not like porn, it’s like, oh, God,  like, like, there, there is this little voice in my head, can I be as, you know, hard for as long as that porn actor, or can I, do I look, do I look good enough, do I, uh, guard my muscles, do they look as, you know, as good as those that I saw in that film, Film,  you know, it used to be like that for me before, before I came to Tantra actually.

 

It’s, it’s, it’s very, very conditioned by porn. Yeah. So people arrive at our workshops and I think one of the, the first issue that I think we are dealing with, so for me, when you go through adolescence and what is it, you get hair that you can sit on in the words of Dame Mena ever,  um,  you are then. aware that you have sexual energy, erotic energy, and you start to play with yourself and you start to play with masturbation. 

 

For me, um, I don’t know what it was, but when I was growing up, that was not a welcome a welcome activity. I knew at some level that wanking, jerking off, masturbating, whatever term we want to call that, was something that I, one, I shouldn’t talk about it to other people and two, nobody should ever know that I was doing it.

 

So you learn to wank by stealth. Ah, okay. You know, for me, you know, I don’t know about you, you know, you’d learn to turn the shower on whilst you were doing it, or you flush the toilet, I used to flush the toilet, you just learn to mask  all of the sounds,  and I think then that carries on into sex, because there’s like a shame that’s attached to it, so let’s just dissect that a little bit.

 

So you’re basically saying that there are all, there are all these mechanisms in our families. It’s in our society that basically  say that you shouldn’t be loud.  Or you shouldn’t even be, or you, well, let’s, let’s take it back to masturbation for a moment. It’s like you shouldn’t, nobody should know that you’re doing it.

 

It should be a secret thing. It’s between you and your hand or you and whatever else you might be using. And there then becomes a shame. So I don’t know if you’ve ever been caught masturbating. You know, I’ve heard people talk about, you know, their mother walked in on them or their We get that a lot in our Yeah, I haven’t been personally, but we get that a lot.

 

And that can create a trauma and a shame. And I think, like, you know Over the years of continually suppressing or almost muffling and silencing the act of self pleasuring, for me, over a prolonged period of time, creates one layer of shame and suppression that stops people being able to be free and truly express themselves, because at a deeply conditioned level,  They’ve learned to suppress any expression of that.

 

So to then be in a place where you’re sharing your sexual energy with another person, you’re then suddenly needing to almost, like, have a counter, a counter behavior, where you’re then meant to be making sound, meant to be expressing yourself, but, oh my god, I feel shameful, nobody should know that I’m doing this, and I think there’s a huge conflict of emotions going on at that time. 

 

Yeah, it’s actually, you know, it’s suppressed to a point to which  they, they really think that they are not able to do it. Oh, I could never do it. This, this almost, you know, it’s a classic walking into our, our retreats, Oh, I could never do it. And what, what you’re saying is, yes, this is a thing in Tantra  is to say we actively need, you know, via exercises, we actively need to undo this conditioning and that for most people.

 

Feels weird, because all of a sudden, in some exercises, they will be asked, Okay, now, Consciously make a sound expressing what you’re feeling and and most of them are like oh shit And all the shame thing kind of comes up and it’s up to us then to create a kind of safe space where we where? Where where where people can experiment with that without?

 

Feeling you know feeling judged or something But I also think there’s a, there’s a vulnerability in doing that. And do I feel safe enough to be vulnerable? But there’s also got to be a, a desire to want to do something different, differently, that a desire to want to be able to make sound. Otherwise, you’re just in an uncomfortable situation where It’s like, I don’t want to make sound and I’m not going to and we’re like, yeah, but this is part of tantra.

 

We want to free you up. The desire, the desire usually comes from people saying, you know, they are coming to us with a desire to do something about their sex life. It doesn’t feel good enough. So, and then. And then we can go in, okay, there are, uh, there are about, I don’t know, five dozen things that we can suggest to, uh, to, uh, to, to, and, and they all work together in a mysterious and beautiful way that makes Tantra so powerful. 

 

But unfortunately, one of these things, just one of those five dozen, is The sound thing. Very important to master that at some point. I want to come back, though, to the things that would stop people making sound. And the first thing I’ve talked about is how, um, how  people are coming into the room already with a suppression of making sound of self pleasuring.

 

The second suppression that I feel we, as a community of men who love men, carry. For me, being gay at the age of 18 or 19. I think the world is vastly different now than it was, um, 30 years ago, 30, oh god, 33 years ago when I first came out.  I came out sort of like six months before it became popular. Um,  So, when I first came out and went to my first gay pub, it was still very 1970s, there was a shutter on the, on the nightclub door, there was a piano bar with some old drag queen, it was still really Quite  1970s esque, um, before it became modern and, and hit.

 

To me, like, the time when, the time, the time when, uh, private telly came up and the first gay characters in, in, in, uh, yeah.  Exactly, it was before that, and Boy George, and Jimmy Somerville, and,  and even, you know, is it George Michael at that time, you know, was, what didn’t feel okay enough to come out for a long time afterwards.

 

The part I want to come back to though, is when I realized I was different to other people throughout my period of school, that was really not welcome news.  And also, you know, I was at a Catholic school where homosexuality, being gay, was judged as wrong.  And again, you know, we, look at the work we’ve done in America where, you know, people have been so traumatized by religion around being gay, homosexual, and that There’s like an intrinsic feeling of being wrong. 

 

I think that, that I think a lot of, um, men who love men community carry, probably even at a more subconscious level.  And it’s like, you know, if you’ve been told that you should never, like, you can never talk about, or anyone should ever hear you wanking, masturbating, which is a really natural, physiological body thing to want to do, and that you’re wrong in terms of your sexuality, um, in that way.

 

For me, that’s like a double suppression that people have to fight through,  which I think then, To then, you know, even then master Tantra and allow yourself to be free, there’s so much undoing that, that’s got to be there. Listen, I just want to say one more bit before I hand over to you around the parts you wanted to add to this. 

 

For me, when, when we talk in groups, When I look at the world around me, if we believe in any notion of God or any higher consciousness or, or anything that is greater than our intelligence in our minds, you know, we talk about consciousness.  For me, when I look at the world that is so perfect, you know, you look at this world, it’s incredibly beautiful down to our nature, the way the landscapes work, even humans, I think are utterly incredible.

 

Um,  Utterly incredible, um, beings. It’s like, there are no mistakes. And if you were born as a man who loves men, or as a gay man, whatever label you want to give, that was not by mistake. Because I think sometimes as gay men, we can carry this idea that nature got it wrong. Like, you know, there was a chromosome that switched a certain way, and nature made a mistake.

 

There are no mistakes. We may not know why we’re gay, we may not know why we’re attracted to have sex with men who love men, but there’s no mistakes, and I believe that if you could feel that that was okay, that is a pathway to a great amount of healing and a great undoing of shame that might enable you, when you’re in the most peak orgasm of your life that you could scream and yell it out in such a beautiful way that expresses every moment of joy and pleasure that you’re feeling in that moment.

 

This is important. So you’re basically, you’re basically alluding to this psychological dimension of Tantra, this psychological healing that it can actually bring this kind of, if, if we learn to reclaim our voice. i. e. our self expression through what we really feel, and especially in something as primal. 

 

Then if we can reclaim that, with that, and we have seen this, right? We have seen this by the hundreds in our retreats.  If you learn to do that, to reclaim that voice basically, and you’re doing that through making those sounds,  with that comes a level of, with that self expression comes a level of  Self acceptance of, of really claiming back who you are and really falling in love again with who you are beyond that conditioning that you have gone through in, in, in your life.

 

And that’s a biggie. That’s a biggie for most. That’s most, you know, it’s,  Uh, in, in our  retreats, that’s one of the first breakthroughs that most people have doing this. It’s not, not so much spiritual as actually psychological. That actually, what does it really feel like  to be allowed to totally be myself without holding back?

 

Could you just feel the power? Just as you say that.  It’s like, oh my god, could you just say that last bit again, because that was so profound. It feel like in my body, my whole body being taken over by this felt sense of  what would it feel like if I was  shamelessly, completely allowed to be the totality of who I already am, rather than  Being in the conditioning of who I, I was expected to be  and that, that is a, that, that is a visceral feeling that is a, a, it has this, this physicality to it, almost like a physical power rushing through your body and that points to what, what, what Tantra can be like, because once you embody that, you see the world differently and you walk in the world differently.

 

This is the whole question of being okay as. The person that you are and showing that to the world the way you hold yourself. Yes And the advanced practice I would add on top of that is Being able to be you in your full expression, and I want to kind of bring in the term without ego, and what I mean by without ego is not needing validation from others.

 

I think we live in a time in our society where we need a lot of validation from others. You know, I think social media, I’m going to be shot for saying this, I think social media is built a lot on that premise that, you know.  Am I good enough? Do I look okay? Am I acceptable? Am I sexy? Am I attractive? Am I liked?

 

Am I popular? Envy, that’s really a really complicated one. Once we buy into that, we are fucked. Yes, yes. So I think that the advanced practice on that, claiming your freedom of who you are, is how you can do that without needing anybody else to make it okay or not okay who you are. That you had enough.

 

Self confidence or self knowledge and I’m guessing we’re going to talk about That idea of self knowledge at a deeper level because that opens up a whole other can of worms  But  You know when you can stand in the truth of you the knowledge of you without needing anything from anybody else That is a level of mastery you’ve attained At that level for me a level of mastery And once you have that, you’re powerful.

 

And once you have that, nobody else can take it away from you because you have this deep sense of knowing of you  that is coming from inside you that doesn’t need a fuck of anybody else outside to tell you whether that’s right or wrong, but also that that’s coming from a place of not needing to prove anything, not needing any ego attached to that.

 

Not an Instagram moment.  If I was being controversial.  Like you said, this is one of the things that you say in Tantra, right? If it happens in your sex, it happens in your life. Y you have coined this, a thing, and this is where it shows, I mean, where it shows up so powerfully. Because people come in the classroom, into the classroom, and they learn how to express themselves during sex. 

 

But the, the, the thing that people usually don’t know before is that it has this extreme ripple effect onto your life. Once you learn this, once you learn to master this in your sex, it’s then going to, going to ripple through and it’s going to show up in your everyday expression, how you, how you, how you. 

 

Feel comfortable  being yourself and to show that In in your life, not just in your sex and that’s what makes it, you know What what makes it makes it one, you know, that’s the the psychological dimension of tantra What makes it so powerful? Yes. Yes completely completely and I think that’s one of the first steps in tantra around I say first steps, I think that’s like the first early years of the practice of Tantra, is how you claim back the power of you and undo the conditioning that, um, has been put on to you throughout all of your life.

 

I think Tantra is an amazing spiritual practice because it doesn’t always look like spirituality. You know, we’re not reading from a book, we’re not reading scriptures. Tantra for me is a physical practice, it’s an in the moment practice that uses the body, that uses sex and sexuality as the core ingredients for spiritual practice, spiritual exploration. 

 

Well it has, it has several layers, but you’re right, you know, in saying that people come to me and ask, okay, how do you, how do I, I’ve heard Tantra is a mystical practice and how do I,  how do I, um, how do I access these states? And, and one aspect of that as well.  In order to be able to access those states,  uh, the first thing to do is to undo your psychological conditioning, to psychologically step into who you really are.

 

And once you have done this kind of, let’s call it cleansing work, uh, then  these more, you know, mystical experiences will come through, uh, through the practice almost. almost by themselves, but uh the  The incredible work to do before is the work of claiming back your full potential psychologically And that in itself without even going further into the spiritual dimension without even going further that in itself Would already be worth it doing tantra for a few years and and a joyful way and and lots of personal transformation And some people leave it at that.

 

Yes, and some people want to Go further for some other people than the more spiritual stuff starts intermingling and happen  earlier  Beautiful  beautiful. What does that what does that lead you into? Well,  I’m just just wondering if this could actually rather be  We’re already at 35 minutes because this is this is quite a long topic.

 

I wanted to launch into  the second dimension of sound of  Um,  of why it is important to make sound during sex.  Beyond what we have been talking about until now, let’s say the psychological, uh, tantric psychological dimension, there is a second dimension, and which is more meditative, actually. Tell us a bit more about that.

 

So, um,  meditation.  Basically, I would say it’s a way of recalibrating your attention  from  fantasies, thoughts that you are lost in all day, to something completely different, to, to, to that what you really are.  Now, that what you really are is beyond words, but it’s accessed through something really specific.

 

There is a doorway. And that doorway is to be found  in.  Total engagement with all the sensations that are and that come to you.  So, for those of you who have done, you know, something like, let’s say they have done Vipassana or something like that, you will know this is very, very, very similar. It’s a way to, uh,  recalibrate your attention to the actual sensations that come in and you, you, you,  You learn how, you, you, you become aware how much you have been living in fantasies.

 

In these thoughts, is this good enough? Is that good enough? Oh, I would rather be somewhere else. And all of, you, you, you learn to recalibrate that to a form of presence, where you are being present with the sensations that are in your body, the sensations that come through your mind, through your emotions, and to completely be present.

 

With those sensations and nothing else and once you have Done that in in a certain way for a long enough time  There are doorways in those sensations that lead to something That is completely different. A completely different world.  And that’s what, you know, let’s call it, you know, for some people Let’s call it mystical.

 

Let’s call it true nature. Let’s call it  Insight. Let’s call it falling into the the the unnameable but the important thing for the moment to know is is  the doorway to that is in relating to sensation In a certain way. So this is, this is, you know, meditation in general. What I hear you saying  is that beyond the day to day having better sex, more pleasure, more joy, what you’re also saying is that it’s a doorway into the spiritual, into the divine, and, and actually starting to view that.

 

In in view the sensations as a meditative practice is what you’re saying. Absolutely and um, And specifically in tantra the powerful thing is you know in in meditation The sensations that you use are for example, you know, you follow your breath you follow sensations of your breath things like that but  What we do in tantra  It has its own power because it directly engages  the most powerful sensations, some of the most powerful sensations that one could have in their normal everyday life, which is the pleasurable sensations.

 

of erotic arousal. So what we are starting to do and this is, you know, this is,  you know, this is part of, of the early tantra training is how to really be present with Every beautiful detail, every erotic detail of every single sensations, every stroke when you’re being touched, every shudder that runs, you know, through, I don’t know, let’s, let’s assume your cock is being touched or something like that.

 

You know, every sensation that runs through, how can we really, really get to the, to the,  to the true nature of that sensation. And, and, and the, the, the.  The access point, uh, to that is fully  throw yourself into that sensation, fully  throw yourself into that. And one way,  of, of several ways, is to amplify that sensation by a sound,  to amplify that sensation by a sound.

 

And, um, when you do this for a while, what happens is that the sensation becomes so much more,  it, it, it switches and you realize that the sensations, for example, when someone stroked your cock before, had been like, let’s say, like a black and white film, and now all of a sudden they switch to full Technicolor and you’re feeling details in those sensations that you haven’t felt before.

 

And all of that  you can actually reach via expression.  And sound. It’s, you know, vocal expression is one part of that expression, and that’s why full circle, uh,  this making sound is such an important, uh, part of Tantra, because it’s part of the mindfulness that we are cultivating with those sensations, to know the full potential and the true nature of those sensation and how that relates to you, to you, to who you really are.

 

Wow, beautiful. I love the way that you encapsulate that. That’s really amazing.  I know, we are never, we are never,  never gonna have,  too short.  That means people need to come on to a retreat with us. We’ll talk about that in a moment because then they get us for a whole week.  But we were gonna offer people as the gift in today’s podcast around what would be top tips that we would offer people to help them make sound.

 

And Can I have a little brainstorm on that? One thing for me is, like one, my first top tip, I’m chucking one in the ring, would be about learning to start making some sound, even if it’s just very quiet um sounds or ah sounds.  Whilst, you know, you’re in sexual activity, whilst something’s happening to you that’s creating pleasure.

 

And what you’re looking to do is to marry together the sensation that you’re feeling in your body with the sound that you are making. 

 

I’ve, I’ve got a tip that is much, um, that, that is much more almost, uh, you know, almost very, very basic because, uh, for me, I realized when, you know, when I started, uh, tantra and when I started these, when I was asked by our teacher at the time to do these kinds of, uh, to do the self pleasuring practice,  what I didn’t know is this very, very simple tip is  set up the space properly.

 

That means when you do this practice, set up a space in your room where you 100 percent know that you can make as much sound as you want to do without your roommate, your neighbors or whoever getting disturbed, no one hearing it. So having, having like a safe space. 

 

Good, good, good second tip. Third tip I’d like to offer is maybe doing some journaling or doing some self reflection, understanding where in your life you felt shameful about your sex, your sexual energy, being a sexual being. Like how comfortable are you that you are a juicy sexual being would be another one. 

 

So And also kind of going back in your history thinking about what’s the things that have happened that maybe have suppressed my sexual energy or that I feel shame about.  What do you think of that one?  Um, journal it, write it, understand it. 

 

Yes, because understanding is nine tenths of the healing. And once you understand it, you can then make choices and decisions about what you choose. You know, do you still want to be strapped to that? Or actually, when you’re doing these practices, are you actually, you know, healing?  For me,  again, that brings us on to a whole other podcast about what is healing.

 

Um You know, because I think people think healing is, you know, you’ve been touched by something and it’s healed. And we have got a whole 45 minute conversation to say all that. But for me, it’s understanding where the shame is, understanding what’s happened. Any more top tips you’ve got? 

 

We’re gonna finish this podcast talking about one of our events. Um, and this, um, podcast should go live in March, I think. We are doing a retreat in upstate New York in June. Do you remember, do you remember the precise dates, Ingo? Uh, I think it’s the 17th to the 23rd, if I’m not mistaken. I thought it was the 16th to the 20th.

 

Around that there is a Saturday. Yeah, it’s middle, middle of June. Do you think we’ll get away if we say the middle of June? Details will be on the website. This is our Diploma Week called Sex, Silence and Mystery.  And as we’re talking about this, there’s only a couple of places left? Around three, I would reckon.

 

Okay. It’s in the beautiful eastern mountain in upstate New York, gorgeous countryside, gorgeous mountain lake, beautiful location. It’s a gay retreat center, fantastically beautiful. And for me, what particularly stands out in that retreat, what we’re doing is uniquely doing two practices. We’re creating the blank canvas of you.

 

So who are you without your thoughts? Who are you without your, um,  without your mind going. And then we start to layer in what I would call intermediate tantric practices so you can experience yourself beyond the confines of yourself in your human identity. I don’t know if that makes sense,  but for me it’s like, how do you experience your sex and your sexuality and your humanity beyond you, beyond the ego of you?

 

And this whole week is deep. We did it, um, last December in the UK, deeply profound, deeply moving and sex silence and mystery, I think is the perfect title. What kind of people do you think, you know, this would resonate for?  No, I just wanted to, I just need to resonate.  I just need to resonate with something you said, because I wanted to say, um,  because I wanted to say. 

 

This is something that,  I mean,  it has to be, you know, it has to be experienced to be believed, I never believed that this was possible. It’s really a thing in Tantra, actually, to have,  it sounds absurd, but to have sex beyond yourself, beyond your human identity, where basically, Your true nature is having sex with the universe, or the universe is having sex with itself.

 

And, dear listener, if this sounds absurd, this is something, this is something, it’s very, it’s a very, very, uh, It’s a very tangible experience if you know how to access it, and, but it’s beyond a word. This week we’ll show you how to do that. This week we’ll show you how to do that. So, for me, the kind of people that it’s open to, If you’ve been in some type of therapy, some talking therapies in your life, if you class yourself as being interested in spirituality and interested where sex meets spirituality, and you’re interested in embarking  on a personal development spiritual journey.

 

Maybe you have done a lot of spirituality but don’t quite know how to bring the body or even how to bring sexual energy into that, and that has been a topic for you. then we would invite you to come and experience this week. I wouldn’t have said you needed any experience of Tantra, um, but certainly an ability to be able to hold yourself, deal with content that comes up for you, and typically, you know, if you’ve been in therapy before, and you would say, actually I do see myself as a spiritual journey, then come and join the other twenty or so men in this beautiful experience.

 

Um, In upstate new york. Yeah, absolutely. And if you you know, if you if you are in doubt whether this is for you like, okay, I’m something is calling me, but I’m not sure if I’m ready for this. You can also you can also just book a discovery call with us and our website and we will Jason or I or you know, we will jump on a zoom call with you to discuss that.

 

Thank you.  Ingo, it’s been a joy to share this time with you today.  Thank you so much for everything you’ve offered. And thank you, my darling. It’s been a pleasure as always to do this as a couple. All right. I love you. Look forward to our next podcast. Thank you, baby. Take care, bye bye. If you’d like to join in the conversation on this podcast, you can do that in our app platform, community.

 

tantraforgaymen.  com If you’re interested in the retreat, you can see details of that under our event calendar, and we look forward to joining you in episode 5. Music Beeping

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